zellephantom: Belle from Beauty and the Beast showing an open book to a sheep (Default)
[personal profile] zellephantom

{With his face in a mask trimmed with long, thick lace, looking like a pierrot in his white wrap, the viscount thought himself very ridiculous. Men of the world do not go to the Opera ball in fancy-dress! It was absurd. One thought, however, consoled the viscount: he would certainly never be recognized!}


Picturing Raoul in a lacy getup is.. very strange. Also hilarious. (And note the example of Raoul's mental what-would-Philippe-do- apparently not go to the opera ball in fancy dress, but that's not stopping Raoul!)


{He was afraid of losing her, after meeting her again in such strange circumstances. His grudge against her was gone. He no longer doubted that she had "nothing to reproach herself with," however peculiar and inexplicable her conduct might seem. He was ready to make any display of clemency, forgiveness or cowardice. He was in love. And, no doubt, he would soon receive a very natural explanation of her curious absence.}


At least now he's forgiven her and given her the benefit of the doubt, instead of making judgments about her character! Good for you, Raoul!


{As Raoul once more passed through the great crush-room, this time in the wake of his guide, he could not help noticing a group crowding round a person whose disguise, eccentric air and gruesome appearance were causing a sensation. It was a man dressed all in scarlet, with a huge hat and feathers on the top of a wonderful death's head. From his shoulders hung an immense red-velvet cloak, which trailed along the floor like a king's train; and on this cloak was embroidered, in gold letters, which every one read and repeated aloud, "Don't touch me! I am Red Death stalking abroad!"}


Ohhh the Phantom's also in the crush-room; how appropriate!


{The black domino kept on turning back and, apparently, on two occasions saw something that startled her, for she hurried her pace and Raoul's as though they were being pursued.}


Does Christine think the Red Death is following her (I am almost certain that Christine knows that Red Death is the Phantom), or does she think it's someone else, like the Persian?


{She tried to close the door, but Raoul prevented her; for he had seen, on the top step of the staircase that led to the floor above, A RED FOOT, followed by another ... and slowly, majestically, the whole scarlet dress of Red Death met his eyes. And he once more saw the death's head of Perros-Guirec.


"It's he!" he exclaimed. "This time, he shall not escape me! ..."}


Now is not the time to play romantic hero, Raoul.


{"Whom do you mean by 'he'?" she asked, in a changed voice. "Who shall not escape you?"


Raoul tried to overcome the girl's resistance by force, but she repelled him with a strength which he would not have suspected in her. He understood, or thought he understood, and at once lost his temper.}


Christine: now, officially, just as strong if not more so than Raoul!


{"Who?" he repeated angrily. "Why, he, the man who hides behind that hideous mask of death! ... The evil genius of the churchyard at Perros! ... Red Death! ... In a word, madam, your friend ... your Angel of Music! ... But I shall snatch off his mask, as I shall snatch off my own; and, this time, we shall look each other in the face, he and I, with no veil and no lies between us; and I shall know whom you love and who loves you!"}


That's.. probably not a mask of death, Raoul. It's his face... Be more considerate- some people just have naturally ugly faces!


(Also, at this point does Raoul think that Christine was lying about the whole Angel thing to cover up that she has a lover, or does he think she's being duped by someone pretending to be the Angel in order to get in a relationship with her?)


{He burst into a mad laugh, while Christine gave a disconsolate moan behind her velvet mask. With a tragic gesture, she flung out her two arms, which fixed a barrier of white flesh against the door.


"In the name of our love, Raoul, you shall not pass! ..."}


I'm very confused. Whyyy at this point does she love him? Is it for the sake of the past? Does she recognize that he has good intentions despite his actions? Does Christine just think that stalking is really romantic? (That would explain a lot, actually.)


{"You lie, madam, for you do not love me and you have never loved me! What a poor fellow I must be to let you mock and flout me as you have done! Why did you give me every reason for hope, at Perros ... for honest hope, madam, for I am an honest man and I believed you to be an honest woman, when your only intention was to deceive me! Alas, you have deceived us all! You have taken a shameful advantage of the candid affection of your benefactress herself, who continues to believe in your sincerity while you go about the Opera ball with Red Death! ... I despise you! ..."


And he burst into tears.}


When did she give you reason to hope at Perros?? Also, I know he's trying to berate Christine here, but the self-loathing leaking in is.. disturbingly strong.


(To be fair, I would also cry in that situation, as conflict-averse as I am.)


{"You will beg my pardon, one day, for all those ugly words, Raoul, and when you do I shall forgive you!"}


That's.. really nice of you, Christine! Recognizing that he doesn't know the truth and has no reason to think you're behaving honorably right now, and that's what's driving the cruel words coming out of his mouth.


{He shook his head. "No, no, you have driven me mad! When I think that I had only one object in life: to give my name to an opera wench!"}


What about your career in the navy? Your family? You have so much more in your life to care about other than Christine- you can't hang your entire hopes on one person!


{"Raoul! ... How can you?"


"I shall die of shame!"


"No, dear, live!"}


How can he? Well, he can propose, and you two can get married, and you would take his name and title and become the Viscomtess de Chagny.


(Also, I question whether Raoul's being hyperbolic due to the strong emotions of first love, or if this situation has sparked genuinely suicidal thoughts in him? Poor boy.)


{ He risked one more sarcasm:


"Oh, you must let me come and applaud you from time to time!"}


No offense, sweetie, but that's not really funny. Or a good use of sarcasm. Maybe leave that to the Phantom.


{"I shall never sing again, Raoul! ..."}


Never sing again as in sing for an audience (as opposed to the Phantom alone), or that she just doesn't want to sing anymore because of the strife it has caused?


{"Really?" he replied, still more satirically. "So he is taking you off the stage: I congratulate you! ... But we shall meet in the Bois, one of these evenings!"}


Ohhhh he's obliquely mock-congratulating her on her engagement. Now THAT was actually good use of sarcasm.


{"Not in the Bois nor anywhere, Raoul: you shall not see me again ..."


"May one ask at least to what darkness you are returning? ... For what hell are you leaving, mysterious lady ... or for what paradise?"


"I came to tell you, dear, but I can't tell you now ... you would not believe me! You have lost faith in me, Raoul; it is finished!"


She spoke in such a despairing voice that the lad began to feel remorse for his cruelty.}


*That* is a finely worded question, Mssr. le Vicomte. An overly formal, but polite inquiry that even somewhat references mythology relevant to the situation! And you BETTER BE feeling remorse now, buddy, after what you just said.

Date: 2019-01-15 10:43 pm (UTC)
out_there: B-Day Present '05 (Default)
From: [personal profile] out_there
Also, at this point does Raoul think that Christine was lying about the whole Angel thing to cover up that she has a lover, or does he think she's being duped by someone pretending to be the Angel in order to get in a relationship with her?)



I'm guessing the second, but he seems to vacillate a lot between blaming and forgiving Christine.

Does Christine just think that stalking is really romantic? (That would explain a lot, actually.)

Hee! Actually, yes, yes it would.

Date: 2020-11-13 07:57 am (UTC)
igenlode: The pirate sloop 'Horizon' from "Treasures of the Indies" (Default)
From: [personal profile] igenlode
{The black domino kept on turning back and, apparently, on two occasions saw something that startled her, for she hurried her pace and Raoul's as though they were being pursued.}

Does Christine think the Red Death is following her (I am almost certain that Christine knows that Red Death is the Phantom), or does she think it's someone else, like the Persian?


I assume she is worried that Erik is somehow watching her, even if not in person as the Red Death (which you'd have thought would be a bit conspicuous for surveillance purposes). After all, she tells Raoul later on that Erik can hear her whenever she calls for him, whever she is in the Opera, and that he has powers that no other man on earth possesses. She has to assume at this point that he might be observing her even if she can't actually see him.

Also, at this point does Raoul think that Christine was lying about the whole Angel thing to cover up that she has a lover, or does he think she's being duped by someone pretending to be the Angel in order to get in a relationship with her?

Both, alternately. He doesn't know what to think, which is one reason why he is so miserable. Either Christine has been laughing at him up her sleeve the whole time, or she desperately needs his help but he doesn't know how to save her...

In the name of our love, Raoul, you shall not pass! ..."}

I'm very confused. Whyyy at this point does she love him? Is it for the sake of the past? Does she recognize that he has good intentions despite his actions?


Once you fit her later account into the Raoul-point-of-view story that we have at this point, we discover that Christine has in fact been in love with Raoul all along -- it was her delight at recognising him in the audience one night and her innocent raptures over "the place you held in my heart" that initially sparked the suspicions of the Voice. Her hostile behaviour towards him has, by her own subsequent account, been prompted by Erik's obvious resentment and her own knowledge that they can't possibly have any sort of meaningful relationship because of the social barriers between them; it has all been for his own good, from her perspective. She has been trying to protect him (and with rather more success) all the time he thinks he has been trying to protect her :-p

However, the fact that she only tells him she loves him at a moment when she is desperately trying to get him to do as she wants isn't the best timing to convince him of her feelings, unfortunately ;-P

Does Christine just think that stalking is really romantic?

The crime of 'stalking' doesn't exist at this time period. Raoul's conduct is recognised as the natural instincts of someone head over heels in love -- waiting to catch a glimpse of the beloved, seeking out every trace of her and treasuring mementoes, straining eagerly for every mention of her by others, defending her reputation, flinging yourself into danger in her name -- and is seen as ardent devotion, not as a threatening mania that needs to be condemned.

When did she give you reason to hope at Perros?? Also, I know he's trying to berate Christine here, but the self-loathing leaking in is.. disturbingly strong.

She wrote him a letter (in reply to his letter begging to be allowed to see her) asking him to come to Perros with her. (And she also hastened to nurse him back to consciousness when he was brought back to the inn; the first thing he saw when he woke was Christine bending over him looking worried...)

And yes, Raoul is beset by self-loathing here, and throughout much of the book -- unlike Erik, his issues are simple adolescent insecurities, but at that age it doesn't make them any less agonising to live through.

What about your career in the navy? Your family? You have so much more in your life to care about other than Christine- you can't hang your entire hopes on one person!

When you're in love for the first time, then you do.
(I really have never understood why teenagers hate Raoul so much, because he is depicted as pretty much the textbook adolescent in his wild mood-swings, his 'My Life Is Over!' and the way that his first love-affair dominates his every thought -- you'd think they'd identify with him rather than with the grumpy old maniac in the basement who drags girls around by their hair and giggles disturbingly from time to time...)

(Also, I question whether Raoul's being hyperbolic due to the strong emotions of first love, or if this situation has sparked genuinely suicidal thoughts in him? Poor boy.)

He was already suicidal before he got Christine's note appointing this rendezvous at the masquerade (again -- surprise, surprise! -- de Mattos appears to have cut out chunks of that chapter, following the passage of the mysterious brougham). The hope offered by the fact that she had made the effort to contact him (rather than, as he had thought, avoiding his unwanted intrusion) snapped him out of it for a while, but yes, the thoughts were there in the previous chapter. It probably is hyperbole, but it feels just as real.

Never sing again as in sing for an audience (as opposed to the Phantom alone), or that she just doesn't want to sing anymore because of the strife it has caused?

In the context, she's clearly saying that she will never perform (be allowed to perform by Erik) again -- in fact, though Raoul doesn't know it, she is scheduled to be taken back down into his lair that very night, by an Erik who is singing disturbingly of wedding nights and will bestow a gold ring upon her. Leroux never does tell us exactly what happened to Christine that night after the masked ball (or why the anticipation of it caused her to sigh 'poor Erik', other than in order to infuriate Raoul for the author's benefit ;-p)

But I don't think Christine here *expected* to be happy and healthy and rosy-cheeked back with Madame Valerius the next morning. In fact, perhaps it was the very unexpectedness of that respite which produced the remarkable improvement in her looks, after the strain of the previous weeks?
She appears to have been expecting this to be the end of her life above-ground, and the start of a life of perpetual darkness with Erik -- which was, in the event, delayed while he worked on his "Don Juan".

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